The Dutch prison population has fallen by more than 40% recently, to the point where they are closing some facilities down as prisons, and turning them into other amenities, like cinemas. 

It comes off the back of the news that Irish prisons are at breaking point due to overcrowding…

So, how good is it in the Netherlands? Renate Van Der Zee is a Journalist and Writer who has been writing about this in the Guardian, and joins Seán to discuss.