Ivan discusses cocooning with Mary O'Rourke, who is finding the process difficult.
Listen and subscribe to The Hard Shoulder on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts and Spotify.
Download, listen and subscribe on the Newstalk App.
You can also listen to Newstalk live on newstalk.com or on Alexa, by adding the Newstalk skill and asking: 'Alexa, play Newstalk'.
